9666/To Fight a Celestial

To Fight a Celestial
Date of Scene:	16 January 2022
Location:	The Danger Room - Titan's Tower
Synopsis:	Sarah Rainmaker talks to Donna and Dawn about angels and Caitlin. And gets some ideas.. And some faith.
Cast of Characters:	Sarah Rainmaker, Donna Troy, Dawn Granger
Tinyplot:	Path of Glory

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Sarah Rainmaker has posed:
Sarah Rainmaker is not quite as exhausted as she has been hte last couple of days after her fight in Manhattan. The Gen-Active girl has put in a request with Donna to meet over in the training area to.. Get instruction on how to fight angels. Sarah is waiting there, still looking somewhat tired but no longer to the point of simply staying in bed and barely moving as she had been. SHe's just thinking.. A hand holding a notepad that had the information that Jon had given the Titans when he dropped by to talk about the angels, ahd she's reviewing it slowly while closing her eyes and breathing in and out.

Donna Troy has posed:
    It's four minutes after the appointed time that the doors to the Danger Room open and Donna steps in, flashing Sarah a grin. Donna is regularly late for things -- four minutes is very good by her standards, though on the other hand this appointment is in the building where she lives, so it's still not great.

    "Hey Sarah," she says, her mood apparently a little more upbeat that might be expected given the trying circumstances. "I see you woke up at last. We were beginning to worry a little, but big battles do take it out of you. How did it go? Any scars to show off to the grandkids?"

Sarah Rainmaker has posed:
Sarah Rainmaker would give a nod to Donna and look tired. Stretching out for a moment, "I.. Think we won. I'm not sure on that. Or if it was just another skirmish in a war zone that's going to have more of them than we can count. And no scars. I'm just.." She would make a vague gesture with a hand that was indicative of exhaustion. She'd pushed her powers way too far.
    "And I'm not going to do grandkids at any point." She would grin.

Donna Troy has posed:
    Donna returns the grin, shaking her head slightly. "Not sure that's something any of us are thinking about right now anyway," she says. "Probably not the best time for it. Better to make sure there's going to be a universe tomorrow first."

    She studies Sarah carefully for a few moments, then calls out "MARVIN, activate simulation TH-17 please." An electronic voice replies "Why certainly Donna," in an odd soft timbre that brings to mind a cartoon character who might get very mad at rabbits and try to destroy the Earth. The lights in the room dim, then rise up again, a landscape appearing around the pair that replaces the large empty space of the room with a wide, sunny panorama.

    The pair find themselves standing atop a hill overlooking gently-rolling green valleys. The top of the hill is crowned with a rough half-circle of tall, slender cypress trees, and a mountain dominates the horizon to the west, with a great forest stretching across the north from horizon to horizon, ending up at the mountain's foot.

    It's peaceful. Very peaceful. The warmth of the sun seems to ease the very bones, though whether that is another part of the simulation or a psychological reaction to how realistic it looks is something that might require technical insight.

    "You still look pretty tired, Sarah. Too tired to be able to concentrate on a combat drill. I suggest the best thing for you is to sit down, enjoy the view, and talk strategy." Donna demonstrates by sitting in the grass herself, looking up with a smile and patting the ground beside her.

Sarah Rainmaker has posed:
Sarah Rainmaker would nod at Donna, "Thank you. In the.. Fight I felt like I could do little more than play distraction. The.. Invaders were taking the most powerful things I could throw out in close quarters and at most it slowing them for a few moments." She would sit back and watch Donna with her hands on her knees as she would take a seat over on a log.
    Explaining further, "They seemed to be extremely well armored and focused upon melee combat. My attacks seemed to not be particularly effective on them. And I am.. Poorly suited for short range combat against a specialized melee fighter." SHe's honest. She's still for all intents and purposes a baseline human when it comes to strength, speed, and durbility. Something that powerful in close range would leave her as little more than a corpse in best possible circumstances.
    "I did not get a sense of any real vulnerabilities with them. Even with more precise strikes of my powers I did not feel like I was finding any ways to injure them at all." She's giving her evaluations of her own performance, notes, and particularly focusing on what she felt were her own limitations in the engagement.

Donna Troy has posed:
    Donna tilts her head to the side, listening while Sarah outlines her concerns, then gives a thoughtful nod of her head. "Well. I think the first thing to consider is... what's the aim here? If you do badly and take out one angel, or if you do well, and take out a hundred -- how much difference does it make to the outcome? We're not going to win a battle of attrition. So the first thing I'd say is you need to be thinking in terms of strategic outcome rather than combat efficiency."

    She twines her fingers together around one knee, leaning back a little. "Perhaps you should be thinking less about short-range combat and injuring them, and more about making it as hard as possible for them to achieve their objectives. Create problems for them. Disrupt their movements. Make life easier for those doing the magical things that can really make a difference. I think that's what Caitlin would say, you know. She always thinks of combat like it's a video game. She tanks, I do fast-moving close support, we have someone else at a distance doing ranged attacks..." Donna breaks into a grin. "And everyone has to remember to protect the wizards."

Sarah Rainmaker has posed:
Sarah Rainmaker would nod at Donna with some moments thought, "I want to be able to be more of an asset on the ground. To work in a group and to help my allies. I know I can't take on eof them head on. But in a group I want to be useful and not a liability. Which means that I need more ways to engage them than just throwing one off balance for a few seconds. Particularly if I have to strain myself very much to do so which means that I'm at risk being a liability if I exhaust myself."
    She would glance at Donna and smirk, "Yes. I've been told that's by far the most important thing. Protect the casters and the healers. Thoug I'm not sure we haeve as many of those."

Donna Troy has posed:
    "Okay, well maybe we should start with you giving me a bit more of an outline of what you can do," Donna says with a slight shrug "Caitlin's mentioned the generalities, and I've seen you in action the one time in Little Italy, but how about you tell me from your perspective. What do you consider your strengths, what can you do /without/ it wearing you out?"

    "I mean for example, you can hit things with lightning, right? But how precisely? The angels may be pretty resistant to that, but some of those angels carry guns. Could you do pinpoint strikes to destroy guns? Then there's a bunch of them who wear metallic armor. Maybe when you see a group of those in close formation in the air, that's when to hit them with something bigger, 'cos if they're close the lightning's going to chain from one to the other."

    "And then they've got wings, and you can manipulate the wind. Rather than trying to knock them out of the sky, could you create a wind that's strong enough to just counter their forwards movement and hold them their for a while? That makes them sitting ducks for other people's attacks. "

    She lets her hands fall back to the ground behind her, leaning back to look up at Sarah on her log, eyes squinting a little against the bright sunlight. "Working in a group -- or a team -- is all about synergy, not about what you yourself can do. That's never going to be perfect in a situation like this, where you're working with people you haven't worked with before, but it always helps to think about making opportunities for other people. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts."

Sarah Rainmaker has posed:
Sarah Rainmaker would nod over and close her eyes before relaying, "I can fly and control the weather to an effective degree. I can shoot high powered bolts of lightning. I can sense the weather. I can alter the temperature to varying degrees. I can control the wind. I have more extreme weather control abilities but in tight quarters in an urban area they would have far too much collateral damage and put friendlies at risk to use, as well as attracting too much attention and being too dangerous for the vicinity. In th epast I hvae been able to make huge storms so long as there is an appropraite weahter pattern in the area to pull off of."
    She would nod over at Donna, "I can do all of those. I was not as effective when going with strikes against the armor or weapons. I am unsure as to if that was them being shielded or the imprecision of my strikes. The wings struck me in combat as ornamental or used as shields or close range weapons. I can possibly throw them off course in flight by focused blasts of wind, though that may not be reliable given to teh peculiarities of how they fly." SHe's listening to Donna fully and going along with them. "As you stated, holding or slowing them to render them vulnerale and limit their mobility seems to be effective."

Donna Troy has posed:
    "The wings may be ornamental in that they're not necessary to flight, but they still increase wind resistance." Donna gives a wide grin. "But maybe you should think about them as being sails, rather than wings? Next time you see one flying, look at the way the wings work. I mean... the biomechanics of them. Where they are jointed, how they bend. With that in your head you'll know where to hit them with those blasts for best effect. If they are flying forwards, bird like, blow across the tops of their wings to generate a sudden lift that'll hurl them up into the air, or blow the wind from behind, so that you slow down the wind velocity over the wing surface and negate lift, bring them crashing to the ground."

    Donna tilts her head to the side again. "It may be that you'd be better off spending half an hour on Wikipedia reading up on flight aerodynamics than worrying too much about combat. I know that doesn't sound as focused, or... well, as fun. But in combat, the better you understand they physics of what you're doing , the better you'll fight."

    "Also, try to let anyone you're fighting with know what you can do. Maybe the wizards you are protecting will have an idea about what you can be doing with your powers that won't have occurred to you, because you don't know what /they/ are up to."

Sarah Rainmaker has posed:
Sarah Rainmaker would nod at Donna after a thought. "That's an excellent suggestion." She's very, very much paying attnetion to. Her copy of the notes from the talk that Jon had given are now being scribbled on evne more as she's taking down notes and putting them down and adding more and more. "You're right. And.. I'll have a lot better sense of it in a fight, particularly when winds are blasting around. I just.. Feel it more then. IT's not something I can really tell when I'm reading. It just.." It's like she knows how it's going based on the sensation, is as far as she can best project the feeling.
    "That's what I've been trying to do, but you're right, I can make sure to expand on that much more in depth before the fight begins."

Donna Troy has posed:
    Donna gives Sarah a bright, encouraging smile. "That's it. People tend to think of combat technique as how to throw a punch, how to kick with power, whatever. That's really just one small part of it. Understanding your opponent's movement is the most important part. When you understand what their body is doing, you know how their action in this moment limits and determines their actions in the next. You see ways that you can use their center of mass and balance to get a greater impact from a lesser force."

    She looks back up at the sky, her smile softening into a moment of something like reminiscence. "It's... the hardest part to learn. You're not going to become an expert overnight. But also, given the nature of your powers? It's probable that even a pretty basic consideration of it will pay significant dividends. But yes... think about /disrupting/."

    "From what I've seen, they are very regimented combatants, and they are not very flexible. They go into combat with a plan in mind, and respond slowly if that plan is disturbed. At the moment this is a holding action. Nobody's planning on victory through superior firepower. So use that. Use their limitation against them. Disrupt their formations. Slow down one flank of an advance so it is no longer in position to support their other flank, and they're open to counter-attacks and forced to regroup. The more you disrupt their planning, the more you slow them down, the better the chances of defeating them."

    "Their tactic is overwhelming firepower, rigidly applied. Do not allow them the freedom to employ their tactics, and you expose their weak point -- they are poor at innovating. We are strong at innovating. Changing the course of the battle to suit our strengths rather than theirs is the best use of abilities like yours, I believe."

Sarah Rainmaker has posed:
Sarah Rainmaker would nod at Donna thoughtfully, "I"m guessing they've fought with millenia of experience if not more. They're highly regimented and.. W ell.. The more disciplined one is the harder it is to adapt to things outside one's experience. They do seem to be simply going by overwhelming numbers and fire as you said. And seemingly with no tolerance of losses." She's very, very thoughtful now as she's tapping the side of her cheek. "So you're exactly right." She seems to be much more cheerful now that she's talking to someone to have an idea. "If they're in packs that means I can throw wind and storms much more readily and disrupt them. And I don't have to worry about my allies being caught in the crosswind." Whether or not her things would hurt is another thing, but breaking up formations and dsirupting their attack patterns is the best use of her abilities.

Donna Troy has posed:
    Donna nods her head, seemingly distracted, but after a few moments she turns her attention back from the sky to give Sarah a more directed nod. "Exactly. And remember the battlefield is three-dimensional. Even fliers usually forget that. Most of the people fighting the angels are on the ground. That means you're generally going to be free to do anything higher up without impacting them."

    She sits up straight again, brushing holographic grass from her fingers. It's really quite impressive how realistic it all is in here -- the log Sarah is sitting on even has the texture of bark to the touch. One thing that does seem to be missing though - the grass is green and lush, and the ground should feel at least a little damp, but it does not. There are always a few tells for even the best simulation.

    "Know where we are, Sarah? I mean this landscape. It's a reproduction of a hilltop I often spent time on in my homeland. Themyscira. There the people have been fighting and training to fight for millennia. In the case of the angels, I suspect it has been much, much longer. But I'm not sure that's any help to them. They are very rigid creatures, and perhaps after a short while, all their training teaches them is how to do the exact same things over and over again. At the least with the lower orders, they all fight very much alike. They are creatures of pure order -- they're really not good at innovating. That needs a bit of chaos. That's why Hawk and Dove make a good pair, you know."

Sarah Rainmaker has posed:
Sarah Rainmaker would nod at Donna, "Understood. The trickier thing is close quarters as they'll be trying to get in range and have supremacy of numbers and of the engagement zone." So that means that having to adapt to fighting where one doesn't necessarily have a great deal of space or time to try and thin the enemy or break them up. One fought on the battlefield they had, not the one that was most optimized for them.
    "If one knows what their training is then in any given circumstance one should know exactly how they're going to respond." That dawns over on her after a moment. "So do we know the full extent of what their training regimentation might be? Or if not is there someone who may know such a thing or give us a best impression so that we could all be briefed on it?" She's thoughtful. "And ah.. A large number of their agents might as well be.. Automotons?" Jon had said they were like robots, after all.
    "So even if they can operate independently from an observer they're still wholly reliant upon how they're conditioned."

Donna Troy has posed:
    "We don't have that much inside information," Donna says, a grin spreading across her face. "But yes, you hit the nail on the head. The most basic form of angel seems to be little more than a drone. Conditioned to fight in a specific way. Once you've watched them in combat, you'll have a pretty good idea how the next one you meet will act. And that's a major advantage. "

    "Have you played back any of the video footage from the battles so far? I recommend doing it. Spend some time watching everything unfold. Don't just focus on the main action. Pause, rewind, playback. Study everything. You'll soon start to notice how regimented those lower-ordered angels are. They repeat patterns of movements. They... flock, following the group. Though actually it's insects that come to mind when I see them. more than birds. "

    "The higher-order angels, particularly the archangels... they're a different story. They can think properly. They can fight. And each one seems to have their own style of fighting. They're much more like fighting a human big-bad. I've noticed one weakness in a few cases though. Over-confidence."

    " In general I'd say your skills are best put to use limiting what the lower orders can do. They rely on a mass of shock-troops. Take that away from them, and they have to fight on a much more even footing. In the end though, I don't see defeating them being a military victory. It'll be..." she frowns. "I'm not sure. Magical, I guess. But if you do find yourself facing one of the leaders, keep that potential for over-confidence in mind. Play on it. Let them feel confident so they don't try as hard. Sucker them in, then go big... and then get out of there. They aren't opponents to be fighting one-on-one."

Sarah Rainmaker has posed:
Sarah Rainmaker would nod, "Not as of yet. The first fight I was in was trying to absorb as much information as possible. Since then I've been mostly collapsed until now." Donna's suggestions are all excellent ones. And ones that Sarah is taking to heart to pursue, to figure out, to contemplate.
    "I'm not sure if we can find the specifics for how they fight, or that beyond the bare minimum could be discovered in a short term. I'll be reviewing the footage. I take it.. Most of the engagements have been recorded in some form or another?" She would inquire, moving to scratch down notes. "And we have access to them all through information shraing or we can ask for them adn get ahold of them quickly?" As Donna speak sof the archangels she would nod.
    "I don't.. Think there were any present in the fight I was in. But there were some that were extremely powerful. At lesat one which.. Even with all of us throwing everything we had at it merely seemed to just be slowed until the end of the fight. It didn't seem to display any higher end sentience.." The one that was holding off the WItchblade, occasionally striking at Zatanna and Jon, and all the others that were busy tryign to help suppress the fight and thin ou the angels to destroy the Throens and the other threats.

Donna Troy has posed:
    "We have some footage that has been shared with us, some from our own drones. Also Caitlin sent in her own bodycam footage of one battle. Interesting to see things from... well, from the other side. It's all available to you on the network."

    "Speaking of which, your guest com does have bodycam capability", she says with a nod in Sarah's direction. "I suggest if you're in another pitched battle, you use that. The more intelligence we have the better. There's a limit to what you can glean from a few videos about a really skilled combatant, but about the drone types? Really quite a lot."

    Donna purses her lips and frowns. "Though... always keep in mind, this is a holding action. We don't win this through battle. We win this through beating the angels to their targets. There are six locations in Manhattan they are trying to get control of, to perform some ritual. We find them, we get their first, our wizards do wizardy things to protect them."

    "And also keep in mind that... that fighting isn't the way we get Caitlin back. That's going to take... I don't know. Time. Patience. Friendship. Giving her the space to discover for herself that she is on the wrong side, but at the same time not letting ourselves get so distant she forgets what she's missing. You should contact her. Might not want to wander into the church where she is right now, it's full of angels. But you could give her a call, you know. I suspect she'll answer her phone."

Sarah Rainmaker has posed:
Sarah Rainmaker would nod at Donna, "Thank you. I'm.. Still figuring out everything. I'm really glad that you're able to offer so much here. I couldn't do anything of this on my own." She would cross her arms over and listen. "I'll make sure to equip the cameras with me in the future and review everything on the network." Her tone is appreciative, even as she's furiously jotting things down over on the notes she's taking. It's like a secretary's crawl and.. Everything she's been putting in is in shorthand like one might use in an old meeting where they were keeping things up for transcribing.
    "I understand. We have to slow them down enough hopefully they cn be removed and the damage contained." THey're not going to eliminate four billion angels. Not with the immense power of the Archangels or the even scarier thing spresent. Not without making the situation far, far worse even if there's anything. "I.. I'll get in touch with Caitlin if I can. If I can speak to her.. How does.. However she's influencing people work." The.. Speak ot ehr on her phone would have Sarah start to bubble over. "if she still.."
    Then she's breaking down to laughter. Mad, mad laughter of 'such an obvious thing'.

Dawn Granger has posed:
Dawn is in the elevator when the doors slide open. She steps out with a bag over her shoulder and smiles when she sees Donna there; then Sarah. "Donna. Hey Sarah, gosh it's been a while," she drops her bag and looks between the two of them. "I'm interrupting something important?"

"Which of the current crisises are you preparing for?," she asks with tongue in cheek because it seems to always be that way. At a guess, it's probably the angels. "Or... have I walked in on something you'd rather keep private."

While she is dressed in her regular civilian like clothes; very casual today with jeans and a top and a hoodie even, sneakers makes her very street worthy; she is also carrying a bo staff. Because you don't get better with weapons unless you actually practice. Weapons have never been her thing. She leans on the staff like a pole, its tip planted to the floor.

Donna Troy has posed:
    Donna beams a huge smile at Dawn, like she hasn't seen her for months. "Come on in Dawny, we were just relaxing in the artificial sunshine and talking things over. Sarah got into a dust-up with some angels and wanted some pointers for next time."

    Dust-up? If only. Dawn can probably tell from the general impression of exhaustion on Sarah's features that it was more than that.

    "Of course if it was Wonderland, I'd be giving her the exact opposite advice. I mean basically we've got the forces of Order in Manhattan and the forces of Chaos in New York. Tactically... very different situations. I'd suggest we keep you here and send Hank to Manhattan just to mix things up, but frankly you two are a whole lot better working together."

    Donna accompanies the suggestion with a wink, just to make clear that the thought of suggesting it for real had never actually crossed her mind.

    "But also... thinking about how to help Caitlin out. It has been praying on everyone's minds, of course. Terry snuck in to the church to talk to her a few days back, but there weren't quite so many angels around then. I think I may have just broken Sarah by suggesting that she could just... you know... give Caitlin a phone call."

Sarah Rainmaker has posed:
Sarah Rainmaker would glance over at Dawn, "Ah, hello." She would givea wave over and cross her hands behind her back after finishing jotting down notes and ideas in shorthand. "We're just talking and Donna is giving me a.. Lot of ideas whe it comes to dealing with things and how to progress in them."

She would close her eyes, "And Caitlin's too damned stubborn to listen to anyone or be convinced of things when she's dug her heels in. I can try and appeal to her but doing it without alienating her more is going to be hard. I'd.. If you're all right with it I'd want to read up on her psychological profile since she joined the Titans. I've not talked to her at length in a long time. I understand if you don't want me to as it's invasive of her privacy."

Dawn Granger has posed:
"The angels are.." Dawn pauses. How to put this delicately.... everything wrong with who she worries she might become if she lived for a decade without the influence of Hank. "Problematic." And Caitlin off in the church filled with angels. "I considered that if I went in to that church I may never come back out - but not because they'd kill me; they might convince me I should be on their side."

She walks on to the grass and stares up at the artificial sky, "I take it your encounter with the angels didn't go well Sarah?" Frankly, the whole situation scares her immensely - and it scares how Hank would react if he went full Hawk against an endless horde of things to fight.

"I've taken to calling it a danger sense, but my danger sense hasn't been going off near the Angels. I think there's some kind of mutual understanding there. But I'm sure if I was near them with Hank it'd be a whole different story."

Donna Troy has posed:
    Donna watches Dawn closely as she dances around the angel issue with at least some of the deftness with which she can dance around a stage. "They are... not /necessarily/ dangerous," she says carefully. "It does seem that although they are distressingly willing to cause 'collateral damage', they aren't intentionally targeting people who aren't targeting them. The other day I intervened in a situation Caitlin got into. Cait queried the Tower database for combat information on a vengeance demon. The demon was working with Justice League Dark. I took Doctor Sims there and we stood between Caitlin and the vengeance demon and tried to get them both to stop fighting. It was very much touch and go there."

    "By the end I was surrounded by a platoon of angels. Caitlin told them I was a non-combatant, and they backed off. This... probably does not apply to Sarah, who's been in one of the big pitched battles now, but I'm fairly sure I could pretty much walk into the heart of angel territory without too much trouble at the moment."

    She frowns, tilting her head in Sarah's direction. "Cait was not exactly happy to see me there," she confides. "But we have to understand the situation she's in. She believes she's doing good, saving the world. So anyone opposing her is mislead at best. We don't /do/ psych reports on our members. But you know what she's like. She cares. I think the best thing we can do is remind her what she is missing, and let her see how all this is changing her -- but without pointing it out directly. In time she will come round, but yes, you're right. It would be a mistake to try to push her."

Dawn Granger has posed:
Dawn nods her head, "Mm. Can you imagine if there was a city filled with demons who just wanted to trash the place and fight constantly and Hank was living there?" it's much easier to see why that's a problem than Dawn living in a city filled with Angels. "And then you flip it."

"Do we know what it is they want? why are they going to these places specifically? and... well, what is to say if Caitlin isn't right? what if what the angels are doing is absolutely necessary? Not killing random demons mind you, I mean the bigger picture stuff."

She sits down on the grass and folds her legs, "There's a certain amount of faith I have to put in to my own powers, my benefactor; just as you have faith in your goddess that there is a point, a purpose to it all. Caitlin is serving what she believes is of paramount importance. Unless we can prove to her that the angels don't have our best interests at heart, she may never listen."

Sarah Rainmaker has posed:
Sarah Rainmaker would watchover at Dawn over in thought and listen. Frowning and giving a nod over. "So that means that they're.. Recruiting. That's disturbing." If there are those that are magically inherent and manipulatable. Can it be resisted? Or can they trust anyone who goes to see them?

"I think that we won?" She would offer. With the expression of someone that really didn't have an idea of how the battle factored in the greater scheme of things.

"They seem to from waht I've read target those for immediate neutralization that get in their way. A civilian armed with a bat or a gun attacking them.. If one goes to duck down I dn't think so." She would nod over in thought over.

"I'm sorry, but when Caitlin's in such a state we're not necessarily going to reach her by appealing to her better nature. She thinks this is right and you're not going to out-argue her. SHE's far too smart and dedicated. If there's an inconsistency she'll have already mentally justified it to hereslf and gone around it. She's logical, she'll have resolved everything in her mind already. If we're going to get ractions or changes in behavior from her.. She'll need to be mainpulated and have emotional responses triggered. Otherwise she stays in her position and nothing really changes as far as her emotional status quo unless someone frustrates her that's a friend and alienates her."

Donna Troy has posed:
    "Honestly Dawn..." an uncomfortable expression crosses Donna's face. "We can't be certain at this point that what the angels are trying to achieve isn't the right thing to do. We can only be confident that the way they intend to do it is wrong. Because as far as we can determine, the way they intend to do it involves erasing everyone from existence. Like... literally everyone. Trillions of trillions of beings. "

    "That's the lever. There's no way Caitlin would support that. But we can't come out and simply tell her this, because she'll view it as evidence we are not to be trusted. That we are being manipulated by dark forces that are attempting to trick her. "

    She turns to shake her head at Sarah. "We can't manipulate her. She's our /friend/. That's the way we need to address this. We need to put her in a frame of mind that reminds her what's important, and that lets her focus on the inconsistencies and see them for herself."

    " This... I know this doesn't sound rational, and I can't explain this, but I feel really strongly about this. I'm not just talking about what's the right way to deal with a friend, or the right psychological approach. This is... this whole thing is kind of... mystical. And I can't shake the feeling that... that symbols are as important as actions. Caitlin has to reject Michael, not because we trick her into it in some way, but because she realises... for /mortal/ reasons. Because if the universe is worth saving, it's worth saving because of things like friendship. Because we go the extra mile for the ones we love. Does that make sense to you?"

Dawn Granger has posed:
A chill runs down Dawn's spine and she nods her head. "Then it's a simple enough exercise. We can't tell her, but if we can get the angels to say it is so in her presence, perhaps then she'll snap out of it and fight back." Because some deep seated part of her thinks that a lack of people would certainly by the ultimate in peaceful resolutions - she and her benefactor are both living beings and are rather fond of keeping it that way.

Dawn nods her head, "Yes.. yes it does. It's not so much a test but a definition of what it is we define as being quintessential to life, to living, that makes it all worth while, that makes existence and the universe and sentience worth while. Our connections, sometimes bad, but usually good. A person who contributes nothing else in their life but to be a wonderful friend has achieved more than a billionaire who forced workers in to overtime on christmas day. It is fundamental to who we are."

Sarah Rainmaker has posed:
Sarah Rainmaker would glance at Donna, "I understand she's our friend and all of us will do anything for her. But friendship and approaching her that way will at best maintain the status quo ofhow we interact. We're not going to effectively change her with it beyond keeping ourselves available." She would nod over at Donna. "I'll make sure to do so and I'll not engage in anything that would manipluate her or play her emotions." That's a promise there. She's broached the subject, been told ti's bad by someone that knows Caitlin far more, and will not do something.
    There's a look given over at Dawn and DOnna, and Sarah would bobble her head at the two. There's not necessarily agreement on it but she can at least comprehend it. SHe would look neutral on the matter. But concede it

Donna Troy has posed:
    Once more Donna flashes a brilliant smile at Dawn. Time has passed and unfamiliarity becomes familiar -- the times Dawn reminds her of Don, the former Dove, are turning into positive feelings rather than a reminder of loss. "That's... very well put, Dawn. Yes. This is a fight where... where we are in danger of losing sight of what it is we're fighting for, and I believe that would be no better than losing the fight."

    "It's important that we stop the angels from doing what they are trying to do, but we have to do it the right way. I've made this point rather strongly to the Justice League Dark too. Poor Doctor Sims has a lot on his shoulders at the moment, but he's also got an Amazon on his back reminding him that if he is convinced he's the good guy and the angels are the bad guys... well he better damn well /act/ like the good guy."

    "In a way, maintaining the status quo is exactly /right/, Sarah." Donna tilts her head, a slow nod acknowledging Sarah's point before expanding on. "The status quo is that she cares about us. She loves the Titans. We cannot afford to have a wedge driven between her and us, because we are her anchor. The more inconsistencies she sees in Michael's story, the more troubled she gets by the actions of the angels she is working with, the more she will find herself missing home. The more she will question the task that separates her from everyone she cares about."

Dawn Granger has posed:
"I've watched episodes of Supernatural.. there must be other archangels we can somehow contact. There's never consensus in heaven in those kinds of tv shows, so may be that's also the case with the angels here. Michael is always depicted as the archangel of war. Genocide of all life is.. pretty extreme. May be there's another archangel who can make a case for benevolence, peace, that may get through to Caitlin if she sees discord amongst the heavenly host."

She frowns, "I'm really stretching my knowledge of Christianity here... may be I should pay more attention to the religion given how real so many aspects of it seem to be. But then, so are so many other parts of pantheons. Honestly, it's easier to just think of them all as aliens."

A small smile is given to Sarah and she says, "Donna is hard to negotiate with on strategy. But we should all do what is in our heart. Because we care, Caitlin will see that. If we put up a false front she will suspect we're up to something."

Sarah Rainmaker has posed:
There's a look over from Sarah Rainmaker that's a forced smile. "I have a very different perspective and experience in things and views. Your's re probably righte rin this than mine are. This is something of.. Paragons, of rules, of rituals. So something straightforward and honest is.. Probably the best way tog o over on it." She says 'probably' as if hedging her bets on it.

"And my own particular.. Perspective is skewed in another direction on things and is best likely not pursued other. I have.. Little experience to none in this world, and it has been what Caitlin has been in for some time. It is not my world."

Donna Troy has posed:
    "Actually... there /are/ other Archangels who disagree with Michael." Donna frowns a moment before looking up again, smiling. "Perhaps most of them. But at the moment, they are going along with him because he is the boss. Right now, this is secret information. We have to be careful not to tip our hands."

    "But yes, this is well worth keeping in mind. And it ties in to what I was saying earlier. It's not just Caitlin we want to start seeing things more clearly. Another reason we must not simply fight to win but fight /right/ is because that's the way we get the other Archangels to act. Michael is the boss, and he has provided them with a solution to a problem, a solution with a high cost but in their view not a sufficiently high cost to change the order of the Heavenly Host. We need to prove to them that what Michael's success would cost is a greater price than they believed. That we are /worth/ backing, and /worth/ saving."

    She takes a deep breath, and blows out her cheeks. "I'd say it's better to think of them as people rather than aliens, Dawn. People like us, just... more. More connected to the universe. More powerful. Larger than life. But still people. And like all people, sometimes they make mistakes. Sometimes they are good people, sometimes they are bad people. They often act out of fear, or anger, rather than wisdom. When they do act out of wisdom, we would do well to listen to what they say. When they act out of foolishness... well. We do what we must."

    She reaches out a hand to rest it on Sarah's arm, giving it a gentle squeeze. "And never forget that, because if they are just people like us, then we have every bit as much right to this world, this universe, as they do. There may be a lot about the world that is unfamiliar to you Sarah, but it's still your world. You are a part of it, and in time you will come to understand it more."

Dawn Granger has posed:
Dawn chuckles, "Oh believe me. I know what that 'more' feels like." She smiles and then sighs again. "You do realise that you just declared that we are the arbiters of what is wise and what is foolish." She winks playfully. "May be that's the key - if they can act with impunity at the levels of creation, then what is our role but to be the ones who tell them when they're right or wrong about it."

She shrugs her shoulders and stands back up. She lifts up the bo staff and says, "You know this conversation can continue whether I'm practicing or not.. so I should at least practice. Time is precious after all, especially if we're all about to die."

She begins to go through a kara of thrusts and blocks and body movements. She's not good at it but then again she's only been doing it for a few weeks. With time she will one day be good at it but her mystical package didn't come with weapons training built in.

Sarah Rainmaker has posed:
Sarah Rainmaker would nod over at Donna, accepting the squeeze, "I hope that I can." SHe would speak with honesty, but also teh tactic admission she wasn't sure if she could or not and felt th eneed to be direct in it. "And it is a question of power and perspective. My own part in the greater scheme of things is.. But a minimal one. I can only hope that it makes some difference, no matter how big or how little. OR vestigal." Her tone is quiet and thoughtful. And perhaps sadness.

At whatever her own thoughts or more personal things in the matter were. Even as she would be quiet and think to hereslf softly. "I feel like I need to go and rest. I'll take down my notes and then when I wake up review the videos that you recommended."

Donna Troy has posed:
    Donna gives Sarah a wry smile and gets to her feet, offering a hand up to Sarah as she does. "Rest is another very important part of preparedness," she agrees. "Sarah, I'm glad you came to us at this time. I'm sure we can all help each other, but right now that rest is the best way to help you. Review the video in the morning, and if you need any more help with this... you can contact me any time."

    She gives Sarah's arm another quick squeeze before letting her go and turning her attention on Dawn. "Staff, huh? Is that your chosen weapon?" she asks the new Dove. "Probably my least favorite weapon of all."

    She walks over to the console, and her fingers play over the touch screen for a few moments. Another staff, rather heavier and longer, appears in the air, floating close to Dawn. Donna walks over to it, reaches out and takes it in her hand. "Okay Dawn," she says, grinning wide. "I'll go gentle on you. Show me what you've got!"