Owner	Pose
Bruce Wayne	Bruce has spent the last few weeks often absent, dealing with a few things regarding the Justice League and some other investigations he was pursuing personally. If he felt like the team needed to know, he'd tell them. For now, he's seeking out Talia, who has been a guest in the circle in recent months. After learning of Cassandra's cross-dealings with the Red Room and Talia having some knowledge of it beforehand, however, he isn't feeling particularly generous towards the mother of his child at the moment. He's dressed casually for him, which is to say a pair of slacks and a t-shirt that costs about a thousand dollars. Surprising for him here in that it's easy to see his rather formidable build, which he often disguises when not in armor. He'll find her in the guest wing, according to the security system.
Talia al Ghul	And there about is Talia Al Ghul, sitting over. Arranged over the table nearest to her are a number of papers. Files. Ones from different archives across the world. Interpol. The League. The Hand. A few that could even be Red Room archival datafiles from the Soviet era. And to the side are a few more. If one could glance at them from a distance, they would be.. Medical files. Or rather genetic sequencing. Two small tubes clipped - one holding hair, another with some small blood.. She's getting ready to make an argument and is making sure that she has everything on it that she needs. There's an air about her of.. Melancholy.
Phoebe Beacon	And coming from the other end of the hallway was Phoebe's form, wearing athletic wear with the sleeve over her left arm to hide the damage, carrying shoes in one hand and a sword in a sheath in the other. She stops short, seeing Bruce making his approach, and she draws up the sword a little bit, and just... gives a hesitant nod in recognition. If Bruce was heading to Talia, she wasn't going to try and beat him to the room.
Bruce Wayne	He knows Phoebe was there but isn't particularly worried about protecting her from overhearing. He didn't have anything to hide in regard to that business. Too much secret keeping was, in fact, part of the problem. "Talia," he says, his hands sliding into his pockets. "I'm sure you're aware that I'm less than pleased you kept aspects of what's been going on with Orphan to yourself. I understand I may not always be the right person to handle every situation, but I need to at least be kept informed. And I definitely don't want you operating in Gotham on your own agenda," he says. Of course she will, she's Talia, but he's not going to pretend he likes it. "You're very good at justifying yourself. You always have been. So go ahead."
Talia al Ghul	Talia al Ghul would glance over at Bruce, "I didn't want to bring it up until I had confirmed it. I'd rather not bring up things about the girl's personal life unless I was sure about it first. And I needed to cover any alternative bases. But.." She would go to hold out two genetic profiles. One from Sandra Wu San. The other from Cassandra. Matching to within as much of a margin of error as science could provide. From several different labs having run the full analysis. "Shiva is her mother." Talia assumed that Bruce knew. The man knew everything.. "And Cassandra's acting more and more like Shiva is in some ways."
Bruce Wayne	Bruce Wayne looks at the reports, lifting them up quickly, "I suspected as much, but hadn't bothered to test. It only matters if it matters to them. You can't inherit martial arts," he says. He drops them back down. "I'll be blunt: I don't really care about your reasons or whether you think it was the right decision. If you want to stay in Gotham, you keep me informed, even about your speculation, especially if they're about members of my team." He knows Phoebe's listening. Of course he knows.
Talia al Ghul	Talia al Ghul would look at Bruce, not aware of Phoebe. "Well, I would have but I only confirmed this as of a short time ago and you hadn't been present or I would have." Her tone is not icy - just tired. Tone not defensive, but explanatory. "And I'm not quite so sure on that." On.. 'You can't inherit martial arts?'
Bruce Wayne	Bruce Wayne waves his hand, "You can inherit athletic aptitude and cognitive gifts, which might make you more naturally adept at martial arts. But it's not the same thing. Or do you think Shiva's had a hand in shaping her? Has she been lurking around as well? Or is that something I need you to conform for certain before you tell me?" "See, that's the thing, I don't care if you're certain, but I don't want you skulking, is what I'm saying. Which is a long way of saying I don't trust you. But you know that. How can I? But I'm trying to at least...not breathe down your neck."
Phoebe Beacon	Phoebe was out in the hallway, she had masked her presence as much as she could, her eyes closed, her hands on her sword and her shoes still as she listens.     Madam Shiva. That made sense. The woman who handed Cass flowers at the dance recital over December had given off the air of being able to beat everyone in the room? She tried to run her o wn memory backwards, matching faces with files from the computer that she'd had to read when she firs twas accepted as a member of the team, but she was listening intently.     After all, Cassandra Cain was a name etched on her heart as deeply as Tim's was.
Talia al Ghul	Talia al Ghul would close ehr eyes, "There's something more to the two of them. So I'll share you my speculation. Visualize.." She would sit back. "Visualize how Shiva moves. How she fights." She weaves her fingers together in the sort of style that Shiva would maneuver in. Stalking. Preying. Looking for an opening. "Cassandra moves the same way. She's barely met her mother. And yet they both fight with the same sort of posture, maneuvering, style.. Shiva's had almost nothing to do with her training. Cassandra was trained primarily by her father and the Red Room. So she shouldn't omve the exact same way." There's something more to it.
Bruce Wayne	He doesn't really want to get into the subject, because he came her to chastise and invoke his authority, not end up in a theoretical discussion. But he IS interest ed in the subject. "That is strange. Most of Cassandra's training seemes to be strange, even by the standards of the Red Room and the League of Shadows," he says. "She has been through more than almost any of us and she's still barely grown." He knows Talia's childhood was also one of training and discipline and fear. They had shared such intimacies, once upon a time. "Do you think her father was intentionally trying to remake Shiva through their daughter?"
Talia al Ghul	Talia al Ghul would shake her head at Bruce, "Unknown. I haven't interacted with him extensively. I'm not even sure he would have the capability to train her that well. He is skilled, but nowhere in Shiva's league. Nor are there other teachers that could /train/ her so well. So while possible.. I would doubt it." She would tap her fingers along on teh table, "I spoke with Cassandra again a short time ago. She wanted to know how I had hit her when we sparred. She was very, very upset I had. That's why she's been going out and fighting more dangerous opponents." Why she had been going to the metahuman pit fights. "Because I was able to strike her minorly once or twice with a trap. She has the same incessant -need- to be perfect. She easily defeated me and the trick was.. Complicated and only a trick for a trap. NOthing to actually worry on in a fight." Closing her eyes, "And while we were talking she went on about how her mother had told her that this made her /soft/. I don' tknow when, how recently, or how it was done."
Phoebe Beacon	"... at least in the last six months, I think." Phoebe states from the hallway.     "But considering Cass's change in behavior, higher amount of risktaking and the amount of times I've made her eat lunch on the beat, more likely in the last three."     Phoebe steps into the doorway, hanging in that liminal space like a bad idea as she rubs the back of her neck, looking between Bruce and Talia.     "That's when I noticed the change in her behavior to everyone. Even me. Never was the most talkative parter." she explains.
Bruce Wayne	Bruce Wayne frowns, "My own interactions were limited. But I agree, above his level of sophistication. But we already know she was part of their program. We know they've experimented with skill and ability mimicry before - there's been enough about it in the files from the Black Widows (of course he has access to all kinds of top secret data). "She's essentially an attempt to create an.....organic martial art. A born killer. The usual murderous nonsense your father and his ilk tend to resort to to justify their crimes." He turns his head as Phoebe enters, "You're right. It's a recent developmenet. I'm more interested in that, I think, than the rudimentaries of her origin. I don't want her getting killed out there. Or crippled," he says. Of her, perhaps, he sometimes feels the most reluctant. Sometimes he thinks he just should've gotten Cassandra a world-class therapist and a peaceful life. She, more than any of them, did not choose this life.
Talia al Ghul	Talia al Ghul would close her eyes, "The Red Room conditioning of her.. Didn't set in fully. Maybe she wasn't under their programming long enough, maybe hse was resistant to their imprinting.. I don't know how she ended up with them or how long she was with them. But her conditioning wasn't done fully." Glancing at Bruce for a moment, presuming he would want an explanation.. But being interrupted by Phoebe. "So she has a meeting wtih Shiva, and around that point she becomes much more focused and driven on improving her skills. Or at least desperate to.. Or she's self aware that even a small disadvatnage in a style is a flaw that has to be corrected immediately." Shew ould look over at Bruce, aghast at the use of that term. About to rant on it before going quiet. Now was not the time.
Phoebe Beacon	Phoebe continues to hang out awkwardly in the doorway, her weight shifting to either side. A born killer... no wonder Cass and Damian got on so well. Minus the stabbings. ... or scarily enough, inclusive of the stabbings. Hashtag - family.     "... am I welcome to join the adults in the conversation or should I, y'know --" she points down the hallway. "'Cause I totally get if this is a private conversation on account of the subject matter, but if there's a way I can help Cass," she pauses, and her face can't hide the earnesty and deep worry in her dark eyes.     "I'll do anything."anything."
Bruce Wayne	Bruce Wayne gives a half-smile, "Like it or not, Phoebe, you are one of the adults now. And I know that you care about Cassandra. Even Talia does, I think, although I'm notoriously bad at reading her," he says. "Do we have a current location on Shiva? I'm guessing the answer to that is no. If anyone were to be able to get into Cassandra's head and influence her...under Shiva's hand..." he shakes his head. He doesn't want to have to fight the monster that Cassandra could be come in her mother's hands. "Have either of you been in recent contact with Cassandra, by the way? I have tried to give her some space to think before I approach her again."
Talia al Ghul	Talia al Ghul would shake her head, "No, the woman is rather hard to pin down. She's entirely mobile and has no attachments to anything. Even contractually if she's interested and looking for a job she'll show up." Not even the League could find Shiva if she didn't want to be. Wait... Eyes jog back and she goes call over, "PHoebe, what was Cassandra like when you first met her? Would you say that she was seemingly independent or would you consider her having been still under the.. Control of the Red Room?" Where were those damned files? She skims through papers, then goes to flip pages.. There, dammit. "How did I miss something like this?" She swears at herself. Looking down at the training records of Cassandra from the Red Room, buried under endless data. 'Training failed due to deceasement'.
Phoebe Beacon	"Don't feel like it most days. But this is kind of the longest I've ever been in a single place without one of the 'grown-ups' turning into a demon or angel or some other shh--" she trails off a moment, blanching at her almost very casual curse drop, and then she takes a deep breath "--ocking development." Phoebe states, and she steps further into the room.     "When I was tapped to work with Tim after he found out about the healing ability, Cassandra looked out for me. She's always been the independant type, but I wasn't exactly well versed with dealing with ex-assassins or those who had gone through traumatic training and buried PTSD until after working with the Kinneys." she states.     "Mostly I encouraged her to do silly stuff, hanging out in the garden, feeding ducks in Robinson Park. Always seemed like she never got the chance to be human when we did serious things." she replies honestly.
Bruce Wayne	Bruce Wayne nods, "I'm glad that you kids do that. Genuinely. I wasn't always so easy on the boys, once upon a time," he says. "I didn't give them a lot of fun childhood memories." "Because she is quiet and uncomplaining, it is harder to see when she starts to feel the bruises of the world. We all feel them, it's part of what we do. Even to you," he says, to Talia, "or is it? Have you decided yet, what you're going to do in the world, Talia? I know your father flicked through town recently. Did you meet with him?"
Talia al Ghul	Talia al Ghul would skim down to it, "So she was dead for three years to them." She would look down at a tagline of letters and numbers. "Something related to removal? Failure?" She lacks the encyclopedic knowledge of the Red Room's bureaucratic filing system.     "And yet she is most certainly not dead,a dn she was staying around the bunker where the cell was housed. The Red Room is clearly not incompetent.. So she was good enough to hide there and mvoe to go out and survive in the same area where they trained her.." ANd how she got so damned good at hiding. But that's a gap of a tleast three years where she was seemingly in hiding and she's come out as a peer to almost none when itc omes to fighting.
Phoebe Beacon	Phoebe sits up straight, and she looks over to Talia.     "... that sounds an awful like they tried to murder her and she beat it." Phoebe replies, and she shifts her weight, and slips the strap for her sword over her head.     "Look, I know, magic isn't exactly everyone's strong suite in the household... but that's part of my skillset as much as breaking noses." she states as she looks to Batman, and to Talia. THe former she doesn't talk magic to because it makes him grumpy. The latter... because trust only goes so far.     "... I could try and get more detail. Divination *isn't* my strongest skill, but if there's one trick I did pick up, it's... looking into the past. I also have a spell for communication. Last time I used it with a fifteen dollar set of earbuds, Cass was given fifty seconds of perfect comprehension and conversation, so we *could* ask."     Her face falls a moment. "If you were all right with it, anyway."