Owner Pose
Sally Houki Sally insisted that Heidi take her, and not her sister, for a Pegasus ride.

Rather than risk too many prying eyes in the city proper, she asked if they could travel over some of the less populated pats of the state, where the views might perhaps be a bit less... city-scapey.

New York State is so much more than just the city, after all, even if that's just what people imagine.

Sally is clinging to Heidi's back, terrified and exhilerated at the same time, THis is a normal reaction.
Heidi Ingerdottir Heidi had made certain it was Sally this time. She gave her an abrupt pop quiz on things they had done before in an attempt to make sure it wasn't Sally's 'sister' who she was taking with her upon Eira. Once she was suitably convinced, they had headed off.

Looking over her shoulder a bit, just to make sure she's comfortable, Heidi seems almost more relaxed than she does on the ground. She's not scared in the slightest, even when the wind picks up and it lifts them a little higher. "You should know that you won't fall. I have an incredible amount of experience with this and Eira is very skilled. I have caught someone falling off a building at least once as well." She seems more than proud, still peeking over her shoulder.
Sally Houki "Really? That's awesome! I have complete faith you'd catch me very easily it's just, you know ,it's still WHOA we're like way up here and hey look at the horses on that farm field!" She points down at a harn way below with horses in the field, obviously. She keeps one hand on Heidi at all times because *hello*.
Heidi Ingerdottir Heidi seems unphased by Sally needing the extra security by holding on. It's not the first time she's had a passenger on Eira before, after all. She did it just the other day to help rescue some bystanders. "I did catch you once," she points out. "But I threw you that time so it was easier to just see where you'd land."

Her attention is pulled to the field with the horses, and she visually assesses them from the far distance. "It seems they are well-kept. I am a little... picky when it comes to horses. While I admire them all, it's the Royal Stables and so naturally the horses and pegasi there are of a much higher quality than others."
Sally Houki "I can't believe I'm flying over a farm on a pegasus back. This is just... the best thing. Heidi, thank you," She flings her arms around her waist and huuuuugs her. BEcause why not? Her head rests on her back as she stares down at the field. "How high can you really go? I mean, I can't go as high as you, I think, without a lot of cold weather gear, but how high *really*?" she asks.
Heidi Ingerdottir "Yes, you would certainly need to bundle up a bit more if we were to venture higher. I am not certain how high as I have never tried. From what I understand, the air will become thinner and it will be harder to breathe, so I imagine it would entirely be up to what Eira and I could handle," Heidi seems thoughtful, then glances backwards again.

"But why would you want to go higher? What benefit is there when you have so much room to be free and go wherever you want?"
Sally Houki "Curiousity, really. You know, seeing the limits! I don't have the supplemental oxygen, though, to make it. It's just... wodnering, you know? You always wanna know more." She clings to Heidi still. "There's no benefit beyond having tried it. Like mountain climbing!" Her grip stays firm. "Wooow!" She looks down at the country roads.
Heidi Ingerdottir Seeing Sally's reaction as she looks down, Heidi nudges Eira to bank to the left, circling around to give a better view as well as allowing for a more exciting ride. Certainly Eira could fly straight and true but she felt like offering a boring flight on a pegasus would be a little heartless.

"I suppose there is always more to know, yes, but there is also plenty all around you. I will tell you... the higher you go, the more uninteresting your surroundings. It is not as majestic as the greens and browns of the earth, the bright colors of leaves and flowers, the faces of people... clouds, despite how interesting they might look down below... are not that exciting up close."
Sally Houki Sally Houki is definitely enjoying Heidi's showmanship, that's for sure!

"I mena, you're not wrong? But I don't fly evey day, either," she points out. She props her chin up on Heidi's shoulder. "Thank you for doing this again! My... I can be a real pain in the ass sometimes." She pats her once, then reaches down to pet Eira's side too.
Heidi Ingerdottir "I fly every day. It seems so simple to me that I suppose I often am surprised when I see how excited Midgardians are at the prospect of flying. We seem to take some things we have for granted. What is it you do every day, friend Sally?" Heidi seems curious. She leans her head to bump Sally's before her gaze goes back to where Eira is going. "I do not think you are any sort of pain, friend Sally."
Sally Houki "Uhm..."

Come to think of it, Sally isn't sure. Her day's are a garbled mess, frequently. "... I'm kinda rich so a lot of the time I don't have to do anything that I don't want to," she muses. She lets go of her side for a moemnt, clenching with her knees to rub the back of her head. "I don't know. I mostly play games, gamble, and occasionally help people out when they need it." This is not, strictly speaking, at all untrue.
Heidi Ingerdottir Heidi seems kind of curious, perhaps concerned. "Are you passionate about these things? Do they make you happy? Or do they just... occupy things?" She offers a small smile. "I have found that things that make you happy are good, but things that continually bring you happiness are better. Is there nothing that makes you excited to greet the new day?"
Sally Houki "Oh, I have things I am very passionate about! Like riding a pegasus. This is SUPER cool," she answers. Talking about herself is something Sally clearly doesn't like doing at all. "And spending time with friends! I mean, I am friends with a GODDESS! How'd that work out?!" Magnets, how do they work?
Heidi Ingerdottir "One day I think you will know me better and you'll trust me," Heidi says, though she doesn't point out why she's saying it. Instead, she pats Eira gently on the neck as she urges her a bit higher above the countryside. "I am glad that this will make you happy, at least, as you are getting a ride on a pegasus and the company of a friend. Those are things that should be treasured."
Sally Houki "I do trust you!" says Sally to Heidi, "It's just.. I mean.. I'm just a normal Japanese girl, you know?" She puts both her arms back around Heidi and then leans forward to peer over her shoulder down at the mane of the pegasus. PRETTY blowing in the wind!
Heidi Ingerdottir "No, I do not know, friend Sally," Heidi points out. "I am from Asgard. Your normal is not my normal. Everything you experience here is new and different for me and I find that incredibly exciting. I merely want to know what a 'normal Japanese girl' is like, how she lives, what she is passionate about. I only know the life of an Asgardian."
Sally Houki "Mn. Japan is okay. I don't really want to go back." Something about escaping from institutions and associating with the Yakuza might be responsible for that in Sally's mind, but she does not immediately share thought thoughts. She lets her fingers settle on Heidi's shoulders instead and give thme a fond squeeze from beh ind. "I mean, it's hard to explain from the inside. You'll know me eventually, though, just by seeing me for how I am!" A scatterbrained twin sister with no idea what she's doing much of the time, at least apparently. Random be her guide.

"I just figure, I get to pal around with you and Kaminari and meet cool people and do cool things and, as you saw, I'm not exactly bad at making money, we got SO much from those fights like WHOA. I should buy you something nice with the winnings."
Heidi Ingerdottir Heidi's face scrunches up, only because she's heard something she thinks she understands a little too well. "Yes, perhaps over time you will simply see me as I am too. Perhaps I will ask questions about Midgard and you can help me understand?" She looks back a little at Sally.

"I do appreciate the comaraderie, when Lady Sif is busy it does get a little lonely. The horses are good company but... they don't talk back and they don't laugh at my jokes." That last part seems to sadden her more than anything, but it's almost instantly ignored when Sally mentions buying her something. "Oh! That would be nice. I do not have a lot of Midgardian things. I would greatly enjoy something."
Sally Houki "Yes! We'll go to the mall and I will..." Sally gasps, "SHOES! We'll get ALL the shoes! And skirts! Definitely more skirts and dresses. I need all the clothes." Sometimes, because her's are ruined with bloodstains and she's not always sur ehow.

"Also, I'll introduce you to Mr. Ed. It's just a TV show but you'll appreciate a talking horse." She rests her head on Heidi's back now because why not. She's happy.

"I promise to laugh at your jokes," she adds, "They are usually funny."
Heidi Ingerdottir Heidi tilts her head to the side. "Shoes? Why are you so excited about them? I suppose if you are dressing up for something, but..." She has certainly not been part of the social caste to have a lot of extra clothes, so the idea seems a little foreign. "I suppose an extra outfit might be in order, it would save some of the washing..."

The TV show gets an amused sound from the Asgardian. "A talking horse! That is a very fantastical idea. Horses speak in their own way, so to see one talk would be an interesting idea indeed." Her eyes flick to the side, though she doesn't really look over her shoulder. She just looks vaguely leftwards. "Only /usually/ funny?"
Sally Houki "...usually," teases Sally, reaching over to give her hair a gentle, playful tug.

"And oh my god no, you need like WAY more clothes!"
Heidi Ingerdottir Heidi makes another face, although this face-scrunch is more amused than annoyed at the hair-tug. "You just can't appreciate all of my very clever humor, friend Sally. Otherwise you would laugh at /all/ of the jokes." She pauses. "What? Why? My clothes aren't worn out. They are in good condition and I know how to mend so it is not as if they will not last."
Sally Houki "You know, for someone who can speak Japanese and Cantone so well, you don't seem to be able to understand other languages," remarks Sally. "It's identity! Clothes make the man. or the woman. So the saying goes. You are very practical, so are your clothes, but there's a time to PROCLAIM things with them." She absently leans over and looks down. "Hey, we should have a picnic."
Heidi Ingerdottir "Oh!" Heidi blinks for a moment. "Ah, the All-Speak. I can always be understood and understand when it comes to language. It is a gift of my people. But it does not come with nuance. I believe your languages all come from different geographical locations and cultures. I may understand the direct meaning of a word, but I do not know what it means to a person. Humor, perhaps, does not translate if it is wordplay... it is all the same to me."

She does, for a moment, seem a little panicked. "If clothing is your identity on Midgard, I must have seemed very silly to many people." She does recall being told about the 'impression' one would make with different outfits. "I am afraid that--" She stops at the mention of a picnic, and guides Eira to swoop towards the nearest field. "Picnic it is!"
Sally Houki "...but I didn't bring anything," says Sally as Heidi declares they're picnicing!

Perhaps Heidi did. She'll go with it for the moment, forgetting all about the previous conversation.
Heidi Ingerdottir As they land, Heidi dismounts and offers Sally a hand down. Once they're both safely down, she pats Eira for a moment and looks to her. "Now you stay with Sally and look after her, alright?" It's obviously not the other way around. She pats the horse again and looks briefly over at Sally. "Wait here, I'll be /right/ back!"

She barely waits for an answer before she's bounding off at a swift pace towards what looks like a farmhouse in the distance. Thankfully, Asgardians are quick.
Sally Houki "Are you..."

Sally stares after Heidi. There's no way she can keep it, so instead, she stays and pets the Pegasus on the nose because how often do you really get to do that if you're not Asgardian?
Heidi Ingerdottir Heidi is gone for a while. Five minutes pass, ten minutes, fifteen... finally, there's the sight of the golden-haired Asgardian bounding back just as quickly with... a picnic basket? It's hard to tell until she's closer, but once she is it appears to be a basket with a checkered blanket folded neatly at the top of it. She comes to a halt nearby, Eira making a noise at her arrival.

"Midgardians are very kind. We need to remember to return the blanket when we are done."
Sally Houki That actually worked.

Sally stares open mouthed at Heidi. How did that happen. She just stares at her before she bursts into delighted laughter.
Heidi Ingerdottir Heidi notices the surprised look. She grins, offering a small wink in her direction. "You would be amazed at what people will give you if you only politely ask. I am beginning to believe people have forgotten the art of manners." She's already setting the blanket out. "It is only sandwiches and fruit."
Sally Houki Sally Houki claps her hands togehther several times in delight!

"I do try to be nice, you know!" She gives her a slight bow from her soon seated position on the checkered blanket.
Heidi Ingerdottir Heidi offers a big smile as she sits down on the blanket and begins to set out the small amount of food--it's certainly enough for a decent lunch. Clearly they'd been kind enough to feed them well, whomever these kind farmers are. "I do believe you are quite nice, friend Sally. If you were not, I am certain you and I would have words."
Sally Houki It's either that or they were terrified of the ASgardian woman showing up at their door but knowing Heidi's clear ability to make friends EVERYWHERE, it was definitely genuine. "Oooh, wow," she says, "I am nice? I hope so! I try to be nice. The world's a better place when people are kinder to one another. They usually are." Th8ey aren't, but she doesn't always see that herself.
Heidi Ingerdottir Heidi glances towards Sally and smiles at her. "I think the idea that people are kinder is nice, but I do not expect the world to be kind just because some people have decided to set examples. I find people are often selfish and cruel because they feel like they are better than those around them. Were the world kinder, there would be less fighting. Kindness is not what stops people who are doing evil things from doing them."
Sally Houki "Mmn," says Sally, noncommital. "Things can always better," she agrees after a moment. Then she reaches for a sandwich. Because, well.. it's there. And she has no idea what KIND of sandwich they got but hey she's down with it.
Heidi Ingerdottir Heidi bites into her sandwich. Seems like a really basic ham and cheese on what tastes like homemade sourdough bread. She seems to like it, allowing herself to surprisingly be quiet for a few minutes while she digs in. It's kind of strange to hear her actually not-so-chatty, even while she's eating. Perhaps she's thinking.
Sally Houki Clearly!

That said, Sally is chatty enough for both of them between bites. "Oh, hey. These aren't bad sandwiches, actually," she adds. "You know, I think that you could probably smile at someone and get them to do just about anything! You're so... so... /nice/," she adds. "I mean, you throw random strangers in the air too."
Heidi Ingerdottir Heidi chuckles lightly. "I suppose I have found that if you ask nicely people are willing to offer you things. It is about being genuine. The woman was very kind when I said that we had no lunch but had stopped in the field and hoped for a picnic. I have found people are more willing to help if you ask for the right thing. People do not like to part with their money, but they will part with food."

She goes back to eating for a moment before returning to the conversation. "I enjoy company. I enjoy people. When you are doing something you enjoy, you find happiness... and I find happiness in people. And I enjoy others being as happy as I am. So why not be nice? Why not offer you a strange and new experience that I was entirely sure you would not die from?"
Sally Houki "Oh, I knew I was gonna be fine," says Sally, cheerily. She's utterly unconcerned to danger. Sometimes, she's even oblivious to it.

She reaches out to take HEidi's hand and give it a squeeze. Yes.
Heidi Ingerdottir Heidi returns the squeeze with a warm smile. "I am pleased you have such faith in me, friend Sally." She, of course, is oblivious that it's not exactly what was meant. "I take care of my friends and allies and I will not stand for them to be hurt when under my protection."
Sally Houki "Yeah, I can see that," says SAlly. She just gets these feelings sometime. "Just don't let it draw you down the wrong road. There are people out there, they won't mean to, but they're... you know. Walking disasters. Like Kaminawri!" She nods. Totally not talking about herself. "I mean, how else do you wind up fighting in illegal fighting rings at illegal gambling dens?" She offers a warm smile.
Heidi Ingerdottir "What you mean to say is how else do you get to enjoy an actual fight for the first time in a long time and also get to spend time with dear friends." Heidi offers a warm smile. "And I do not know that there is a 'wrong road'. Sometimes there are paths we pave that may not be the ones others normally follow, but that does not make it wrong. If Kami chooses to forge her own way, I am here to support her. And you as well!"
Sally Houki "Oh my gosh you're so sweet," says Sally, warmly, looking at her with big eyes.

She looks like she wants to melt.
Heidi Ingerdottir Heidi beams. "Friend Sally, you are going to drop your sandwich." She reaches a hand over to have ready in case the sandwich /is/ dropped. After all, there might be disappointment for a fallen sandwich. "I am just being me, whatever that may be. I like to be as genuine and as truthful as possible. Sometimes there are times where it is not necessarily safe to be that way, but for the most part I think I manage it. Being yourself is a very liberating feeling."
Sally Houki "That's very kind of you, and very genuine. I like it!" SAlly nods, firmly, proceeds to take a bite of her sandwich. She didn't drop it, though she did evidentally neded the reminder because she nearly did. Nom nom nom.
Heidi Ingerdottir Heidi's hand retracts so she can make sure she's got her own grip on a sandwich. She takes a bite or two before looking back to Sally and speaking up again. "You seem so light-hearted and energetic. It's a nice thing to see amidst the serious and stoic. You seem to enjoy life."
Sally Houki "Life should be enjoyed," replies Sally, "And everything will work out, eventually. Like, Superman being alive. I knew he was gonna be alive! I just knew it. He had to be. It would be a pretty low-weight branch if he wasn't," that she muses over, more to herself.
Heidi Ingerdottir "Who?"

Heidi has heard many a tale of heroes and villains on Midgard, both ancient and current. She's been on Midgard less than a year, however, and all that time there's been no Superman. So no one had told her the tale. "I do agree that everything will work out. Life has a way of finding what it wants eventually if we let it. Sometimes it is best to go with the flow."
Sally Houki "You don't know Superman? Big hero, red and blue costume, wears his underwear on the outside of his suit? He's really crazy amazing, all the time. When he died, the Justice League broke apart or something." She muses. She wasn't really paying attention. She has another bite of her sandwich, "But apparently he showed up again and it's the real deal, unless he's a dimensional variant, or maybe a clone! He could always be a clone."
Heidi Ingerdottir "Ah, well, it is always good to know of people willing to protect Midgard. I will enjoy the chance to fight alongside him in whatever battles are to come. I am excited for what skirmishes the future might bring. Perhaps one worthy of a title, even." Heidi seems to practically glow at the idea. Not literally. She proceeds to go back to eating her sandwich.
Sally Houki "How about 'Badass Pegasus RIder Heidi'?" asks Sally, thoughtful. This is her idea of a title. She seems to approve of it herself, anyway.
Heidi Ingerdottir Heidi tilts her head to the side. "That is not the title I was going for, but I am honored to have it bestowed upon me. I shall wear it proudly and we will have to have a feast to celebrate being awarded such an important thing." It's hard to tell if she's being silly or serious because she's saying it so clearly and so straight-faced. She resumes eating her sandwich and polishes off the rest of it.
Sally Houki "We're definitely tfeasting," says SAlly.

And then she too polishes off her sandwich and leans back to stare up at the sky. She lets out a happy sigh. "I always liked the stars," she tells her.
Heidi Ingerdottir Heidi looks up at the sky. "When I look at stars from Midgard I just think of how different it is from Asgard. The familiar patterns aren't the same. It is pretty, though." She pauses, continuing almost sheepishly. "I found tiny lights that twinkle and I put them in my bedroom so when I turn off the light it looks like stars."
Sally Houki "Ooh! YOu have to show me that! That sounds cool!" Sally beams at her. "I know there are things liek that, they're not a big deal, but I bet you've got it set up REALLY cool."
Heidi Ingerdottir It's a little strange, seeing Heidi a little bashful and sheepish about something. "I felt like it would be nice to lay back and look at the stars. I tried to make them look like the patterns from Asgard, but I am not sure if it is easy to tell what they look like. It is not perfect... but I did try."
Sally Houki "You can show me the pattern. I think things like that are really cool. SOmeday, I'd like to visit Asgard but I doubt it's a thing that people like me get to do easily, anyway." She reaches over to play with Hedi's hair again for a moment before she puts her hands together behind her head to pillow it.
Heidi Ingerdottir "I will try to see what I can do, though that's a... tricky thing. I'm not important there." Heidi makes herself more comfortable on the blanket, looking up at the sky. "Someone like Lady Sif could get you in. They would certainly get you some looks and we'd be caught rather quickly if I tried to just take you."

She sighs. "But I can show you my stars. They look enough like /something/ for me to be able to point them out and tell the stories."
Sally Houki "IT's okay. It doesn't have to happen tomorrow, or next week or next year. Besides, I'd probably catch the eye of the wrong God or something if you tried to take me." She beams at her, then says, "We can do that after we're done looking at THESE stars. Have you read about what they mean here?" She asks.
Heidi Ingerdottir "I have studied a few bits of history, but nothing about stars," Heidi says, peeking over at her. "Do you know stories of them?" There's a pause. "I thought about making some up. My poetry is often based on truth, but sometimes I like to make something up. I don't share those much."
Sally Houki "So, like... there's just oen story where you're from, right? Maybe different versions of the story, but one story?" asks Sally, staring up at them. "Here, it's like the languages. There's as many stories as there are places to name them."
Heidi Ingerdottir Heidi glances over before looking back up. "Aye, we're one people. It is strange to see Midgard so splintered. But we have one story, although some people tell it slightly differently depending on where they grew up. Slight differences only." She stares at the sky. "So what are your stories, friend Sally?"
Sally Houki "Is... Asgard... smaller?" she asks, curiously. Her head tilts. "My stories? Gosh, there's so many. Endless stories. So many possibilities I haven't even chased down yet! I'm going to, one of these days. Everything is possible until you choose, then you have a whole new world open to you."
Heidi Ingerdottir Heidi laughs, genuinely sounding amused. "Asgard is no small place. It is a realm, as Midgard is a realm. It is vast and beautiful." She peeks over at Sally again. "I agree. There are so many possibilities out there, so much potential." She pauses, and it's a long one. "Oh look, I see a constellation I know a story about. Shall I tell it to you?" This, of course, is utter bullshit. She admitted just a moment ago that she knew none from Midgard.
Sally Houki "Oh! Okay," says Sally, turning her attention back to Heidi. She totally missed that its bullshit...

... mostly because she had completely lost focus and forgot about that part of the conversation.
Heidi Ingerdottir Heidi stares up at the sky for a moment, clearly looking for something. "Ah, right there." She nudges Sally with her elbow before pointing at a cluster of stars. "The ones that look like... fireworks." Well that's certainly vague enough. She still points, as if somehow Sally will spot it.

"Once there was a young woman who thought herself ordinary. She went through her day doing ordinary things and did nothing she felt was special. One day she stumbled upon a magical being who told her she was an important part of the world and would mean something to the people around her. She was no ordinary woman, she only played the role of one because she didn't know better, because she was afraid of who she might be."

She peeks over at Sally, only a tiny bit before continuing. "When this being told her this, she was afraid. Could she show the world who she was? An ordinary life was simple. But the being showed her that the world around her was full of wonderful things if she only embraced it. Her life would be full and lovely. Then the being had to go and she was sad, but she knew that she would be alright at last because she realized she had nothing to lose. The cluster of stars represents the explosion and blossoming of her fearlessness to face the world and embrace possibility."

Heidi stares at the sky looking extremly happy with herself.
Sally Houki Sally listens.

Sally listens, then looks where she's pointing. She's rapt in her attention, mostly. "That is a wondeful story! I really like it. Is that person you, Heidi? It is about you, right? An ordinary girl from Asgard who wokred with the pegasus and chose to be something more? That is wonderful! I love it. That is so you." She nods, totally thinking this is the case. She reaches over and squeezes her hand.

"Thank you for sharing that with me. I will share with you stoires about the constellations when I actually know them! I don't like at all, but there's SO many."
Heidi Ingerdottir Heidi smiles, but she doesn't correct Sally's assumption. She pats her hand gently before looking over. "It is a lesson we could all learn from, I think. But you should learn them and we can swap stories. I'll tell you the stories from Asgard on my ceiling and you can tell me some of the Midgardian stories next time we come out to stargaze. I believe that will be a fair trade."
Sally Houki "Yes! Okay! I will totally google all the stories," she'll forget, "and then we can trade stories," she'll wind up listening and asking questions and being very bad at not wandering off mid conversation on a tangent when trying to talk to her about it. She beams, bringing her hands back up to go behind her head again. "This has been really nice."
Heidi Ingerdottir "It certainly has," Heidi agrees, almost sounding a little surprised. It's just a mild change in tone, nothing remotely negative. "You are, once again, lovely company and I am glad I got to bring you out instead of your sneaky sister. Between the two of us... I do believe you got the better experience. It was certainly more fun and she didn't get any made up star stories."
Sally Houki "What made up story?" wonders Sally, still looking at the sky.

"You get to choose who you want to be every day. Doesn't souind made up at all."
Heidi Ingerdottir "Who is it you're choosing to be, friend Sally? An ordinary girl from Japan?" Those were the words Sally had used, and Heidi is curious as to the actual answer. "I am content with who I have chosen to be. Can you say the same?"
Sally Houki "I'm content with who I am right this moment. My life is pretty good. I got to ride a pegasus today, you know," says Sally, casually.
Heidi Ingerdottir "If you are content then I shall be content." Heidi chuckles lightly. "I shall have to find more strange things for you to do so that I can see you shocked and awed. It is quite amusing to see how excited you are about riding Eira."
Sally Houki "Oh oh! Are there, like, griffons too!? " Sally perks up at the thought. "Or maybe other fantastical beasts! It's so aweosme to be here. I mean, LOOK at this place! All the possibilites!" She does love her possibilites. "And I got to make friends with you. THat's really cool."
Heidi Ingerdottir Heidi laughs. "There are many creatures on Asgard that do not exist here. Unfortunately many of them are dangerous and could not be brought to Midgard. You would not likely want to see them anyway. Some of them are particuarly monsterous." She looks back over at Sally and smiles. "I am glad to have made your acquaintance, Sally. I value those around me who have brought me joy and continue to bring light to my life. I am glad to count you as one of them."