19773/Denials in Case of Defeat

Denials in Case of Defeat
Date of Scene:	29 December 2024
Location:	Ready Room: Triskelion
Synopsis:	A depressing talk about humanity taking it's own weapons to destroy itself out of spite to prevent Galactus from consuming it is argued passionately against by attending SHIELD Agents.
Cast of Characters:	Natasha Romanoff, Richard Stadler, Jacen Knight

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Natasha Romanoff has posed:
SHIELD has a number of bureaucratic overseers that the agency occasionally has to coordinate with from their eschewed directors - the representatives of NATO that speak to them concealed in the darkness of dim lights that have theoretical jurisdiction over the agency. That much of the time the agency finds creative methods of bypassing.

In this instance, it's not one of those immediate higher ups, but someone of a middleman bureaucratically that takes reports up the vine and they in turn promptly get ignored. Which is why in turn they've been 'given' somewhat of an expert to work with here to make it seem like SHIELD is taking them seriously. The man is almost the fitting stereotype of the one tha tspeaks through the veil. Here in the bright light..

IT's a mostly bald man in a cheap formal business suit that looks like it came from a thrift store taking a seat at the end of the cheap plastic folding table, a fan overhead making the light flicker.

Richard Stadler has posed:
     Oh, one had to be nice to the bureaucracy, honestly. Once you reached a certain rank, that's what you had to be, at least for a little bit, and Rick understood that. Just as he understood these contingency meetings. Hell, he'd given a number of them to a few senators and generals; They were meant to be useful, of course. Logically further goals in a world where resources and human capital were exceedingly scarce. Force protection and multiplication and the like. Certainly though... It was also just a simple reassurance that there was a /plan/... even if it wasn't a realistic one.

His only problem was that he was on the other side of the card table, as it were. Hands on his knees, leaning forward just a bit, peering at the middleman through glasses.

"Looking forward to a productive discussion." He says. To.... no one in particular.

Natasha Romanoff has posed:
The man looks just as tired as many others here. There's just the faint veil of sincerity to his posturing as he takes a sip of coffee from a cheap paper cup. "Colonel Stadler." None of the usual complaints about how he was expecting someone important to talk to him or how his taskmasters will be upset. Either he's not surprised, or he's just the type to not state this sort of thing directly.

"From what we know about the.. Entity, it consumes the life force of a planet, not leaving it just completely barren, but destroying it and leaving debris behind. Our capacity to evacuate anyone from Earth will be a few thousand at most, and we know that no one getting off is gonig to be anything but the rich and extremely well connected."

Richard Stadler has posed:
     Stadler takes a bit of a breath. Waits a beat for others to comment, of course, but if he was going to spend a weekend here, he was going to be asking some questions. Granted, his own exhaustion was from the standard sources; setting up for the next semester, training, and otherwise filling the day with as many things as he could that indicated there would be a way out of this. Perhaps he shouldn't envy being out of the position where he had to actively worry about these things.

Then again, there was always the nagging thought that he could be doing /something/.

"All right. I know there are other discussions in terms of stopping that from happening. Are we looking at planning some sort of... continuity of civilization effort? I don't like the rich and powerful being the face of Earth forevermore, but I feel using them would be helpful. This should really be something we're coordinating with the folks on the East River. UNESCO, esspecailly."

Natasha Romanoff has posed:
The man would sigh, "That, Colonel, is beyond my pay grade to have any influence on and likely your's as well. However, I can speak with a sense of inevitability that is what the probability is gonig to be if worst come sto worst and the priorities. But, that is not what I'm here to speak about. He goe sto open the briefcase.

"I'm sure you've heard the myth of how after the Third or fourth PUnic War and Rome's defeat of Carthage that they salted the Earth so that nothing could ever grow there again to showcase their total defeat of their enemies. And yes, it's a myth and inaccurate as the area was a major break basket for the Romans for the rest of the time they controlled the territory."

Richard Stadler has posed:
     Stadler leaned back a bit, in his chair. Closing his eyes for a moment. That was a exisitensial crisis he was going to save for another time. Focus on what you can, of course. That was all you can do.

Eyes open. "Something from history class, certainly. A bit of classic 'scorched earth' tactics. We might speak more to Stalin's retreat from the USSR's eastern territory in the 40s. And... in terms of making our prescense felt, not the... worst of ideas." He mused. "Suppose we first start on your anticipated mechanism before we look at efficacy."

Natasha Romanoff has posed:
The man would sigh, "From everything that I've.. Read, there are a finite number of planets in the galaxy with life on them that Galactus deems.. Efficient to consume. So when all else fails, we deny him any life left here to have to take. And maybe that weakens him enough that another planet that's a little stronger than we are can fight him off and destroy him."

He continues on, "And nukes, Colonel Stadler. Nukes. There are tens of thousands of them on Earth, a great many of which will no doubt be fired at him to no remote use whatsoever. But there will still be a few hundred, maybe a couple thousand left to finish the job here."

Richard Stadler has posed:
     Keep it hypothetical. Another plan to be filled away and gather dust, rather than be used. "Always happens to be nuclear weapons. Very versitle things for the end of the world, honestly. So many uses." He deadpans... and perhaps only half joking.

"So, a few things to discuss at this point. And I don't think we have the intelligence needed to come up with concrete answers, but they need to be addressed." He says, bringing out fingers to count. "First, Feasibility. Major nuclear stockpiles fall on us and Russia. Strategic arms treaties indicate a limit to the long range ballistic weaponry we have that can actually produce enough delta-v to make and break orbit and actually strike the thing coming for us. Those are the easiest ones to salt the Earth with, a few key turns and we're done. So, do we use them on this endeavor, or as a standoff strike weapon? Assuming we're using the reminder, B61 freefalls and W80s on our ALCMs, how are we on pilots? Talk logically all you want, but you'll be ordering people to fly out and hit major cities from their homeland. Not to mention suburbs and rural areas, /everything/. With weapons that, I am assuming, we're looking to add some cobalt salting to kill as many things as possible. Are they going to be able to do it?"

A second finger. "And there's the geopolitical indications. We're going to need Russia on this, I assume. What if they see our operations to stand up nuclear forces as a threat? Oh, I imagine in this scineario it won't matter that much, we're all dead anyway. But 'rapid destruction of the biosphere' and 'Countervalue strikes against remaining 3CI; are /very/ different strategic directives. Last I checked... this was a NATO organization."

Natasha Romanoff has posed:
The man goes to give a nod over, "Well, in the event that Galactus appears in the open skies, I presume that no one's going to particularly care about the niceties. Every single thing will be launched off and into the air. A few of them will be older rockets which will fail anyways in launch, misfire, or have components too old to go off. That will be between five to ten percent of them. OUr country hasn't quite been so thorough in updating the ICBM's." Despite the several hundred billion earmarked for it after all. Money had a way of ending up having other priorities.

"Call me a cynic. At the end of the world, I expect it will be everyone lashing out in one last gasp for something, meaningless as it is. You can count me amongst the ones that would rather try to go out swinging, for all the nothingness that it will achieve. And given we can't hurt the bastard.. At the very least we can hopefully give him just a little bit of indigestion."

Jacen Knight has posed:
If ever there was an instance of making the wrong turn at Albequerque. Jacen walks in to hear things as he thinks he is coming in to another meeting. He hesitates after a few steps and looks between the men,"Yeah. So not th' dark arts d'fense discussion." he admits outloud.

Initially, he waits to see if he get immediately bounced. If he doesn't he finally asks,"Is there a way to make this world /look/ unappetizin'? Spoilin' th' proverbial milk's were. As many wizards, sorcerers, 'n witches on th's rock?"

Richard Stadler has posed:
     Stadler looks over to Jacen, raising his eyebrows. "Different discussion, admittedly. That's firmly under 'saving the world', and I'm W.A.N.D. and every other freelance mage on the planet's concentrating on it. I've seen a few doing it. This is a different discussion on delaying Galactus' operational capabilities to allow other planets more time to organize their own efforts in evacuation or defense."

He loks back to the gentleman up front. "That's is the strategic goal of this document, sir. Or it should be. We'll be getting to sentiment of a type, but 'going out swinging' is not enough for this sort of operation. It's a good a time as any to look at what we'll be losing compared to what we'll be gaining. If this was simply a 'press a button and people die three seconds sooner but Galactus slows down', it would be an easy decision. But our current tools simply don't allow for that." He says. Eyebrows raised with the intention to continue.

Natasha Romanoff has posed:
The man looks amused, "Likely you're right, Colonel Stadler. But sometimes all we can do is act out of spite and justify it in better terms. The ones who remember it will think the worst of us if we go this route. They probbly will be justified. But since I feel like this is what will happen as a matter of course without any sort of coordination whatsoever on the matter just as we're humans, might as well have a go on throwing together an operational plan."

He would nod at Jacen. "That sort of thing's a bit beyond my ken. So I don't presume to call it. I just think if it is truly the end, then everyone wil lbe firing off everything at everyone"

Jacen Knight has posed:
A nod to Stadler and Jacen replies,"I'd be willin' ta try ta help'n th' save th' world category, but my powers're kinda not wired f'r th's kinda thing. I'm a street level't best. A heavy hitter here an' there, but ain' nothin' like Galactus." he admits,"M' grandfather died b'fore he taught me anythin' like what you're gonna need."

His at tention mover the other man and nods,"Outa mine too. I reckon'f history proves anything it's this people'll cut off our nose ta spite our faces. Better one last f you's it were."

Richard Stadler has posed:
     Stadler gives a cock of the head to Jacen. "Nothing to be ashamed of, son. World's been changed by a lot of people with no special powers just putting their minds where they need to be, together. Though... this is certainly a horrible time for that sort of pep talk.

"But, operation plans need more than that. 'Making the death of our world more organized' doesn't make for a good plan itself, and you'd be hard pressed, in this sort, to keep organization cohesion without it. I'd doubt even the most dedicated, trained missile officer is going to turn his key unless he's certain, deep down, it's going to mean something in the end."

Another finger pointed out. "So we get to cost versus reward. First, I have to note that our current nuclear strategy assumes we're conducting strikes to degrade the ability of conventional enemy forces to operate and destroy economic resources needed to continue war. The destruction of life as we know it has always been a... side effect." A quirk of his lips at the dark humor of it.

"If we really wanted to kill as much life as we can, we need to aim for areas rich in biodiversity. Avoiding towns and cities might be the best course, and aiming for, say, the Amazon rain forest, or the Pacific Northwest, the bayou's of Louisiana, the Nile Delta, California's Central Valley. But, the main point is, we don't know where Galactus get's his sustenance from. Higher forms of life? Just biomass? I'm rambling."

He moves to take off his glasses. Gestures forward with them. "The point is that doing what we need to do here is beyond the nuclear war you're thinking of. We are going to rend deep wounds into the earth, and it can't be done quickly. Flora and Fauna both need time to die from radiation poisoning and nuclear winter. Miserable weeks or months which /will/ be the last they'll experience. Are we wiling to abandon any notion of global palliative care to hurt him just a little?"

Natasha Romanoff has posed:
The middle aged man that seemed the stereotype of the middle manager bureaucrat would listen over would give a nod over at Stadler and then over to Jacen, "I think that most of the planet is in that case. Even if for quite a few of them it's categorized in that they're going to be the ones to destroy this planet and not let anyone else beat them to it." He gives another cynical grin. "I suppose you can put the madman in Latveria on that list depending of the day of the week."

He turns to Stadler and sighs, "Exactly. See, this is where I came to hear about things. How to best go about it." He smirks ever so sadly and holds his hands up to show no recorder, no taking notes. "And you're talking about humans in a category that implies we're rational beings with kindness for our fellow man on a universal scale. And I'm on the opposite end. I think that makes you the braver man than me, Colonel. And I wish that we lived in the world where you were the righter one. But, when it comes to the end of things.. If we do fail, if most of the planet banding together isn't enough, if only a few thousand humans will survive elsewhere.." He's a cynic, a depressed man that views the world through a blackened lens but admits it.

"I think there are unfortunately enough like me that would rather take a small chance at doing some actual hurt rather than sitting by idly and letting us be eaten. Yes, it may not do anything. But spite is a powerful thing. Even if it's just empty reassurance when all else has failed."

Jacen Knight has posed:
Not sure what to say, Jacen falls silent for the time being. He leans his back against the wall, one foot pressing flat against it as well. He pushes his hat back from his face a little and ponders. This is so far above his head, but he is trying to be helpful where he can. The can is a little short right now,"Anyone what's got craft spaceworthy we could shove one down his throat an' set it off out'n space. See what happens?"

Richard Stadler has posed:
     Stadler lifts his fingers to the brow of his nose, rubbing a bit, before exclaiming suddenly. "Can we smoke in here? Doesn't matter, don't have any of them on me. But I like the scientific approach." He says, waving to Jacen, before placing his glasses on his face again, blinking. "Certainly we could get a plan for that. What we're sensing with, what we're hitting him with, what we're looking for. Get some hard data on if this is actually going to work; to do /something/ that would demand the butcher's bill you're asking for. Because if it slows him down for days, or weeks, or months, then yes. It's something we can aspire to. Giving a bit of our remaining time to help those who might be fighting down the line. A good trade. That's what we should be aiming for." He says, eyeing the man down. "Not this... odd combination of cynicism and romance that suggest we go down swinging because at the end of the day we'll just tear each other a part anyway."

He pauses. "We're the government. I suppose I used to be, but I might as well be now, given how many fires I'm still putting out for you. We're meant to organize, to provide the plans people can follow to know they're doing something, even if it's living their last days on earth the best. To hurt who's doing this this to us is something I find we'll want to do, but unless it's in the service of something, of giving others more of a chance, it's... spite and vengeance we could spend on simply making the time worth spending. God, it all comes down to romance, doesn't it?" He mutters.

Natasha Romanoff has posed:
The man laughs, "Whatever it is.." He would nod to Jacen, "All we can do. Big or little. Me? I write papers an dforms. They'll be shuttled into a warehouse somewhere, filed in triplicate, and never be heard from again until two hundred years later if someone remembers to declassify them listing what the budget is for cafeteria janitorial supplies. I'd much rather it be that way. And I'm not the one with the ideas. I'm not the one to report the ideas. I'm just the one somewhere in the middle of it."

He would smile sadly over at Richard, "Well then, I've had three ex wives and the happiest day of my life was when each of them became the 'ex' part of that. So you can call me jaundiced. I'd say agree to disagree but we seem on rather opposite ends of the spectrum. But I'm not the one you have to convince. Likelier I'm the one that happens to like this idea the most or at least is willing to express it and it's handed off to me so that our taskmasters can be dutiful when they report."

Jacen Knight has posed:
Shaking his head, Jacen pushes from the wall and settles his hat again,"Gentlemen, you're over m' head an' then some." He walks to the door,"What I hear don' leave th' room, but I ain' really too helpful an' I might be slowin' things down for ya." With that he tips his hat and steps to the hall again.

Richard Stadler has posed:
     Stadler gives a nod over to Jacen, as he heads out. "Appreciate the voice of hope, I really do. Perhaps not the best time for it here, but... well. Good to have you here, regardless." He notes, before turning to the man in front of him.

"See, that attitude... Sometimes that's the ideal outcome. Pleanty of plans that I've drawn up I /hope/ collect dust and never see the light of day, but I have to argue aganist self defeating bureaucrats. Forms and paper exist for a reason. Sometimes it needs be be pruned, but the job is to keep things organized. But if you can't do anything with the data we're giving you... Then what are we doing here?"

He stands up from his chair. "Pick better partners." He says, plainly. "And realize that what you're trying to do, what you're asking for isn't something to just be given a fatalistic shrug with the statement 'it'll happen anyway'. You underestimate how much you'll be taking from people who will have no hope left, nothing to do but wait for the end, and I don't see your estimate on how much you're getting back beyond 'something'. I'd hurry. If you want to reduce the biosphere and how much energy it takes, we're rapidly approaching a point of no return, and I'd like to know if and when I should make my own preparations."

That was grim, and fatalistic. This entire conversation was. Necessary. But grim.